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The white wolf

Started by the she wolf on 12 Sep 2004, 12:01 UTC · 74 preserved posts

i ive been wondering about the white wolf in the original Balto movie is it suppost to represent the spirit of the wolf
I guess in a way it does. As she shows Balto the way, and how he must be, guiding him along and then of course he howls with her, very wolf-like!:laugh:
Someone who worked on the movie told me that the whitewolf was supposed to represent Balto's wolf side, his mothers side, the spirit of the wolf, so yes in short. Not actually his mother and therefore not Anui :P
At first, I thought the white wolves from both movies were the same, until I first saw the one in #2.
That's a good question....I think in a way it is but I think mostly it's surposted to be Balto's guide and it helps Balto get his wolf spirit out of him. Well that's my option and someone might have a different one.
This opens a new chapter of the without-end-story Is the white wolf aniu? =P
for me absolutely noooooooo
I duno if shes Aniu or not. But I do know that when she shows up Balto wastes no time in gettin up and getting to work. To us it might have been a "beutiful howl" but she migh thave been saying somethihn like. "Boy what you doin slackin off! You beter get up and get that job done." Im for real is she said that how would you know? ;)
Wo)lf said it! ^^

//CL
oh so thats not the same wolf in the second movie i didnt know that
No one knows wolf... it could be could not be whos to say for sure.
Will The White Wolf return in Balto 3, and is she a part of the Alaska myths?

[QUOTE]
Pinned ya!
who really knows. i watched the japanese trailer on...someones site (sorry i forgot your name)
and there is gonna be a female goose.
as for the white wolf / aniu i have to clue.
hope she's in it.
White Wolf: Has a wolfie look and it looks like it is hung over Balto and looks down on him and plus I think the howl sounds a little different...

Aniu: looks more husky-like and she has different eye colours personally I think that white wolf looks like a boy.
I tend to believe that they are different wolves.  The white wolf is huge compared to Balto and looks more like a male.  Aniu on the other hand is smaller, has a different howl, and her eyes are shaped/colored differently.  And wouldn't Balto have reacted differently if the white wolf had been his mother?
Quote (Greykitty @ Sep. 23 2004,11:51, pm)
And wouldn't Balto have reacted differently if the white wolf had been his mother?

Yes, But Aniu is a Shape Shifter
guard has a point there. and plus, the animation is diffrent for wolf quest, and why would the creators make 2 white wolves? it would confuse the little kids that watch it.
Quote
why would the creators make 2 white wolves?


Because the writers of WQ were not the creaters of the original movie. They probobly thought the White Wolf was supposed to be Balto's mother, even though it was not such when the original writers created it. So, perhaps in WQ's little world, the WW was his mother, but... not what was intended by the original movie. Not at all.
Quote (thelonewolf 27 @ Sep. 26 2004,7:21, pm)
in WQ's little world, the WW was his mother, but... not what was intended by the original movie. Not at all.

That's true the same could be said of Simba and Nala's Cub. I've read books that said The Cub was Male, And In Lion King 2 We meet Simba and Nala's Daughter ???  However with Balto nothing states that The White Wolf and Aniu are the same. So I guess it's a mater of preference :)
man...why do these writers have to confuse us so? :laugh:
Why does it matter if she returns? It's not like shes a main character or anything in the movie. Sadly but truely she doesn't contribute all THAT mucht o the movie. Cept for being Baltos mammy.
yeah, but she's a neat character.
lol she gives us the only insight into Balto's past that we have. Also, She might not be an important character in the main story, but she is a major factor in the backstory that a lot of people want to discover... In a sense, she indirectly affects Balto's disposition, reputation, and those lead to him being an outcast and develop into the character today that we all know and love. And since the past and heritage pertain so much to the story, it'd be pretty ironic if we nothing about our main character's history ^_^
Another reason I choose to believe Aniu and The White Wolf are One and the same is because it also makes a better conection between "Balto" And "Balto 2"
* sweatdrop * i always thought that white wolf was the spirit of Balto's mom...
It dont realyl amtter all that much anyway. Shes only on screen for liek what 30-45 seconds?
The White Wolf might have been on only briefly, but it's appearence represented so much...  It not only inspired Balto to embrace his true self, but also taught a very imporant moral.  *Firm nod*

Hopefully, one day, you'll find this to be true.
The white wolf was a great addition to the original. The wolf was there to point Balto in the right direction....the direction of a wolf. i do not think that the white wolf in Balto was Balto's mother, Aniu. They look totally different, to me. *shrugs* but it was an awesome scene....one of my favs...actually, it WAS my favorite scene! :D
I agree it was an awesome scene.  One of my favs.  I don't think the W.Wolf is his mother for the same reason they don't look alike at all.
Yeah. The white wolf in 1 was WAY bigger than the one in 2. Plus the eyes were different.
Well for one wasn't the animater from balto 2 diffrent from balto 1, they cant draw her EXACTLY the same. Also it makes the scene cooler to me, his mother's spirt came to him when he was in need, not just some random lone wolf.
Quote (Greykitty @ Oct. 07 2004,6:46, pm)
don't look alike at all.

As I said before Aniu is a Shape Shiffter. So they could be(I'm not saying They are)the same Wolf. I agree with Blue_Wolf Believeing It was His Mother that came to Balto makes the scene cooler To Me
Quote
Well for one wasn't the animater from balto 2 diffrent from balto 1, they cant draw her EXACTLY the same. Also it makes the scene cooler to me, his mother's spirt came to him when he was in need, not just some random lone wolf.


Yeah, but most animators try to match color, size/shape, and style to a certain extent in any sequal even if it is low budget. �The white wolf and Aniu don't look alike except that they are both white. �That's their only simularities, and I'd think that if they wanted them to be the same wolf they would have drawn her more to what the original white wolf looked like so people wouldn't be in a debate over it.
Aniu IS Balto's mom.

( clip from Balto: 2 )

Aniu: my son

Balto: * gasp * Anui... you're my...

Aniu: * nods *

Both: * howl *

Aniu: * dissapears *

Balto: goodbye...mother...
Yes, Aniu is Balto's mother...But the debate is about whether Aniu was intended to be the white wolf from the first, or are they different characters.
I'm not sure, but I would agree with GK : even if the Balto 2 drawers obviously didn't draw well, they would not have changed the white wolf so much, unless they would have a good reason.
This is just a gess on My part, But could it be that aniu's animators had no referance pictures of The White Wolf?
So some of you think that Aniu is not the whitewolf, so were do you think that the animators got the idea of Aniu. just a random character that they made up, I think not. They obviously got the inspration from the whitewolf, I mean in the first Balto the writers made the whitewolf look wise, and guess what, the wolf pack in balto 2 called her "the great aniu". even though they have some diffrent looks from balto and balto 2 the whole concept is the same, look at the shape of there heads the way the eyes are shaped, THERE THE SAME. Maybe the animators wanted to make her more approachable. I mean in balto one the white wolf looks like it can rip apart balto, thats not a good mother figure to all the little kiddies out there. so maybe they just toned down her appearance a bit.  Look at muk and luk they look alot diffrent in balto 2 but they are still muk and luk.
(this is my opinion, I may be wrong but I think my idea is pretty logical)
Straight from the crew of Balto 2 itself... the two white wolves and their connection were vague enough, but similar enough, to be interpreted either way.

I personally continue to believe that they are different, if by looks alone... not even Muk and Luk's character design changed that much. The White Wolf is larger... has a much older, wiser appearance than Aniu. I also agree that Balto would have recognized his own mother the first time when he scented a wolf at the bottom of the cliff...  yet he just got up and left after 30 seconds with a new determination and belief in himself. It was a symbolic thing, not his actual mother.
Quote (Snow Wolf @ Oct. 09 2004,9:20, pm)
Straight from the crew of Balto 2 itself... the two white wolves and their connection were vague enough, but similar enough, to be interpreted either way.

That settels it then Those of Us Who want Them to be the same can have it that Way, And those of Us Who want Them to Be Different can have it that way. Everybodys Happy  :D
Quote (Blue_Wolf @ Oct. 10 2004,2:59, am)
So some of you think that Aniu is not the whitewolf, so were do you think that the animators got the idea of Aniu. just a random character that they made up, I think not.

Yeah, well I mean er, how many whitewolves are there in the world? They have to be the same cos they are both white ???
OMG!! *clings to Snow and gets sparkled on* YOU'RE the White Wolf??? *folds my ears back and grovels* I'm not worthy! (well..you are white, and you are a female...and you do disappear and reappear..don't you?)
OMG Snow is Balto's mother? WHY DIDN'T YOU EVER TELL US???? Can you get me a personalised photo of your son oh great Anui??? I will pay you back in spirit breakfast cerials and wardrobes and stuff
*sparkles on Vesta... nods head once and closes eyes in an enigmatic manner*

(Translation: Oh man! All these years of debate, and you finally found out my secret...  I never told you because I am white-furred and mysterious. I will get Balto's pawprint for you the next time I appear to him... you know, he never calls anymore! )
Quote (Snow Wolf @ Oct. 09 2004,10:20, pm)
I also agree that Balto would have recognized his own mother the first time when he scented a wolf at the bottom of the cliff... �yet he just got up and left after 30 seconds with a new determination and belief in himself. It was a symbolic thing, not his actual mother.

Thats the thing Balto didnt know that Aniu was his mother tell she actully said she was, so how could he recognized her from balto 1 hmm hmm hmm hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

(ohh and snow wolf balto hasent called becuse there is no phone jack at the boat hehe)
If Balto remembered that his mother was "as white as snow, and had a warm voice"... then he would be old enough to know her appearance and scent. He just didn't realize that his mother was also the Aniu of spirit fame. ;)

(Well, at least he could send a letter!;)
So your Balto's mom?! *Blinks* You must be older than I was aware of. o_o  How could I not have forseen this...?*Scratches head with paw*  Though this does explain a few things... ;)  

Aww, how typical of any pup. They move out and don't even keep in touch! Wait a minute here; since your Balto's mom, can you tell us what *really* happened to him during his younger years? *Ears twitch attentivly*
Yeah Snow Wolf Tell us Please*Ears perk up*
Heh, haven't been here in awhile...

My opinion will never change either. �I think her eyes were yellow in the sequel, because well, all of the wolves had yellow in their eyes. �Not black. �If they had made her eyes black and gold, it would have clashed with the continuity of the other wolves' char design. �And, as the special section on my website shows, Aniu's irises are gold, contrary to popular belief.

And, Snow, you couldn't possibly be Balto's mother, because if Aniu isn't the white wolf, and you're the white wolf, then...*laughs* :p
*gazes over at the other white wolf, eyes half closed... then turns away and pads to the side, sitting*

(Translation: Phew, saved... I mean, oh look, Aniu's here! Ah, why don't you ask her about Balto as a pup... storytime! *sits and waits*)

I still don't understand why they changed the eye color thing anyway... the reddish background instead of black was odd...
I'm going to say it again, because the idea seems to have been buried, again.

Basing this on the way the characters are designed is completely (excuse the blunt way I'm saying this) stupid. Think about it: How different can two white wolves look, aside from eye color and build? With the different animators, the eye color and build could be blamed on their different styles, especially given how far off Balto and Jenna look from their originals. Thus, we need to look for inside informaiton...

Given the comment that Fluke recieved from a person who worked directly with the production of Balto (thus, he had all the "inside info"), there is no possible way that the writers of the original Balto had intended the White Wolf to be Aniu. With the definition of "represent", it was meant to symbolize his mother, while not actually being his mother. It is impossible for it to be Aniu. There is no argument.

Now when WQ comes into the picture, the writers of that story (who may not have had the chance to talk to the original writers, or just didn't care about the small details... which is quite likely) probobly had in mind to make the White Wolf from the first movie be Aniu. However, we have a direct quote from the makers of WQ that they made it loosely linked enough to go either way. For the first movie, they are seperate entities. For the second, take your pick.

What we have are plot conflicts between the original and the sequel, nothing more. :P
\n\n

They changed the eye colours cos they are different wolves :P
I was in the middle of typing a long post, and my stepmother's computer crashed while I was typing, so now I won't bother.

Since I'm in the minority of WW opinions here, I unfortunately feel that I don't fit in. �That's the real reason why I left for awhile. �It's not that I don't like this place and it's occupants, �I just sort of feel the way I did in school: different, and thus isolated.
I feel different from everyone else here as well, but that doesn't mean either of us should isolate ourselves because of that. I revel in my wierd and differentness, and try to embrace it, for it seperates me from "the crowd".  :cool:

Personally, I don't see why you should stay distant for the sole reason of being different. But that's just my humble opinion; take it as you will.  ;)
Seems silly to get annoyed and iscolated just because you disagree with the majority about a minor side character in an animated movie.
Considering what has been said from crew members of BOTH films, I'd say the debate is more or less one-sided now.  I mean, Aniu was loosely based on the White Wolf, and the White Wolf was symbolized Balto's wolf heritage.  That alone puts an end to the WW and Aniu being one and the same theory.  As we can no longer put words in the film crews' mouths.  

You can always think of Aniu and the WW being the same, however.  But as far as actual fact goes, it now amounts to speculation, really.

One disagreement over a movie fact, is a bit much.  If I left friends just because we didn't see eye to eye on everything, then I'd be a pretty lonely person.  Just because some of us don't agree with you over an animated wolf, doesn't mean we don't like you.  Is that really worth cutting yourself off from the rest of us for?  (And being different isn't a bad thing.  It's just being different.  It's what I've been taught at church, and I think it can apply to a variety of situations.)
\n\n

Aniu 1983 I'm also in the same minority, And I come here every day. I've never been made to feel unwelcome. So their is no reason to leave
All of that is why I returned. �I don't know why little things tend to affect me so much. �Maybe it's because of my mental illness, or maybe it's because my entire family is super-sensitive, to a ridiculous point, thus I picked it up from them.

To sum it all up, yes, I was gone for a crazy reason, but I'm back now. �I'm sure I've missed out on a lot of interesting conversations.

But, I digress. �Back to the main subject: while I can't prove Aniu's identity, I think I can prove that she is bigger than Balto in that end scene. �I've studied screengrabs of it for hours(not all at once, but over the years). �Finally, with the help of ArcSoft PhotoStudio, I was able to verify my ideas. �I drew red lines from each char's shoulder to their paw, and from the base of one ear to the tip. �In both cases, the lines were longer in Aniu, and were about the same ratio as the white wolf(I also did a red-line analysis of the latter).




Obsessed, with a little too much time on my hands?  Definitely. :p
this is very fasinating. i usualy don't get into debates, but i do like reading / listening to them. i like hearing opinions of others and how they word them.
anyway aniu, i like how you're using visials to help your case. :)
Wow Aniu...I'm pretty sure the "artists" behind WQ didn't even really think about Aniu's size compared to Balto...I think I've read in an "how are made the animated movies" document (it's on my site, but in french) that the american team which is designing the characters, send their work to the asian team, with the storyboard. So they don't always specify what is the role of each character, or their size etc, they are just drawing the animations. So I doubt that comparing the character's sizes can be taken as a proof, but it might be a clue.
Very interesting Aniu 1983, And welcome back
Thanks, and yes, I know the pics don't prove identity, but they at least illustrate the size differences between the chars in WQ.  I'd say now that Aniu isn't quite as big as Nava(the latter being quite a bit bigger than Balto)but still larger than her son.  After all, she should be, since Balto is half husky.
I think you have chosen the wrong picture to compare Anui and the Whitewolf. Mainly because one is standing (and standing it towers over Balto) and one sitting where Balto is standing. The proportions are different when an animated character sits, artists will exagerate parts of the body to make it look natural (you can note while running the bodies are often very elongated and stretched to give the appearance of speed). While sitting another character of that size will look bigger anyway as their head and shoulders are much more raised.

Also what I notice looking from the picture, is that the whitewolf is obviously further away from the camera and yet, through a snow storm, you can clearly see bold features on the face that Anui lacks and this is close up Aniu with no snow. Even like this with a blurred whitewolf, I can't see any similarity except coat colour (and they are still different shades of white! )
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Quote (Fluke @ Oct. 14 2004,10:31, am)
(and they are still different shades of white! )

To this I would give the explanation that the lighting is completely different: in this there is an orangey sunset, whilst in the WW scene there is full sun and storm.

I still maintain and insist upon that Aniu is bigger than her son in that pic, taking everything else into consideration. �Like I've said, it doesn't prove anything identity-wise, but saying she's the same size as Balto is inaccurate to me.

Of course, my most popular argument will continue to be these two images, excluding the basic differences in eye color and otherwise:





This makes me think that Aniu had more than one animator: I theorize that she had one animator for the part when Balto turns around, another for when we see her closeups, and yet another for when she howls and disappears.

Even with all my staunchness and stubborness, at the end of the day, I'll always give both film crews merit and consideration for their differing explanations. �The WW and Aniu are both wonderful and beautiful characters in their portrayal in the films, and will forever hold my utmost admiration.

I wonder what it is about the WW that has held Balto fans for so many years.  Is it the plain and simple fact that it is white?  Would a gray, or even a black wolf in that scene have affected us in the same way?  Indeed, it is a subject to ponder...
First those 2 pictures, ignoring the differences you (and others) have already stated, Aniu's ears are bigger in proportion to her head.

Also with the colour and shades of white, the environment around a character does indeed dictate what shade they are. Now the time of that howl in the original Balto would be about dawn as the previous scene with Jenna was dark. That is what I would assume. Also note the colour beeming down from the sky, there is definately a sun rise/set shade dominating through the snow in the background. Although it is lighter than the chosen picture from the sequel, very similar colours for the light source are used (they are even coming from the same direction).

The whitewolf's colour seems to be more an off white.. a natural looking white fur in otherwords.. dirty. A wolf isn't going to stay completely white in the wild, it is going to get mucky especially in winter. Spirits surely don't get like that..spirits would surely shine (and sparkle :D) like Anui in Balto 2.
The last two pics you posted, Aniu. Make the white wolf and Aniu look very similar!
I always knew The white wolf was a figure of Balto's wolf side.  So in my opineon,I think Aniu and the white wolf are different.
Arg...you guys are talking like the animated balto is REAL and this whole whte wolf and Aniu thing happend, Look in Balto the writers an animters may have not made the WW balto's mother, but in WQ they did. I mean come on the people who wrote WQ are not the same people who wrote balto. The WQ team obviasly wanted to make the WW balto's mother, why else would they make Aniu look like the WW. I know what your going to say "but her eyes""but her ears", look at the bone structure there almost identical. Let me some it up for you all, Balto WW=not balto's mom but yet just a representation of his mother. WQ=Aniu is the WW, that is what the WRITERS of WQ wanted not the WRITERS of balto.
Yes we know all that already Blue wolf but where is the fun in not debating it?
Quote (Fluke @ Oct. 17 2004,6:46, pm)
where is the fun in not debating it?

In that case The reason They look different is because Aniu is a Shape Shifter, and She apered(SP?) as a random White Wolf  to inspier Balto without desracting Him from His task at hand.( Or paw as the case may be :laugh: )
In any case,I still think they are different.:D
i think they are two diffrent wolves
Well, I've found something that is interesting :
it's a picture from the B3 little game on the DVD.
Click here to see it.

It seems that here, Aniu is the White wolf, but remember that the makers of these kind of extras have nothing to do with the film makers, so it's not really a proof.
Very Cool steetboris! Thanks for sharing
Cool pic.  Just looking at the two compared.  The original White Wolf is so more majestic looking than Aniu.
Oooh...that's pretty cool! You are right about that one, Steet. The people who do the games are not those who do the movie. i do not htink that it is trying to imply that Aniu is the white wolf from the first one. As Grey said, it is a comparison..and I must agree that the original white wolf looks more majestic....I also think it has a more masculine look or aura to him. Though, for all I know it could be female, but I think it is male.